Laying tiles on cement mortar

Timofey, let’s look at this topic in detail using the example of your bathroom and toilet. For advice and discussion, you must first clarify the information. Specifically interested in the following:

1. Bathroom dimensions (length, width, height). For the toilet - length, width, height of the lining.
2. Tile format for walls and floors, as well as water absorption for floor tiles.
3. Construction and base material (separately for walls and floors).
4. Plumbing pipes for risers to appliances (heating, plumbing) were installed and pressed together.
5. Bath installed.
6. Plugs, hooks and brackets for hanging sanitary fixtures have been supplied.

I agree with Behemoth , additional information is needed, at least on the first three points. For my part, I will calculate the cost of materials for installation: cement-sand mortar vs tile adhesive. I will describe how I lay tiles on cement mortar with my own hands. For specific sizes and materials, it will be possible to discuss the approximate cost of the work.

Timofey , for floor tiles you indicated only the size of 30x30 cm, but what about water absorption? This parameter affects the choice of tile adhesive. For example, for porcelain stoneware - water absorption is less than 0.5% - you need glue with increased adhesion (accordingly, the price of the glue is higher).

Regarding the linoleum on the floor. Is it glued or just lying in a piece on the cement screed?

Having data on the object

1. Bathroom (LxWxH) - 295x215x245, toilet (LxW) - 150x215, cladding height 110 cm.
2. Wall tiles 15x15 cm, floor tiles 30x30 cm.
3. Wall - brick + gypsum plaster + lime whitewash, floor - cement screed + linoleum.
4. Plumbing lines for risers to appliances have been installed.
5. The bathtub is installed on legs; I don’t plan to cover it or wall it up.
6. Hooks and brackets for hanging sanitary fixtures have been supplied.

You can estimate the required materials :

1. Tile . For the floor in the bathroom you will need 75 pieces, for the floor in the toilet you will need 38 pieces, size 30x30 cm. Accordingly, for the walls 1063 pieces and 330 pieces, size 15x15 cm.
2. Primer . The total area of ​​the walls of the bathroom and toilet is 25 + 18 = 43 m2. Primer consumption is 0.2 kg/m2, i.e. 8.6 kg required. Since the walls are lined with gypsum plaster, an insulating primer such as Primer A Eco will be required. The total floor area is 6.3 + 3.2 = 9.5 m2, i.e. 1.9 kg required. Since the floor is a cement screed, any primer can be used.
3. Tile adhesive or cement mortar . In our example, to lay tiles on the floor and wall, you can use tile adhesive with adhesion from 0.5 MPa (class C1). If porcelain tiles were laid on the floor, then tile adhesive with adhesion of 1 MPa (class C2) would be needed. When laying tiles measuring 15x15 cm, the trowel tooth size is 6 mm, consumption is 2.7 kg/m2; tiles measuring 30x30 cm, spatula tooth size 10 mm, consumption 4.2 kg/m2. Thus, for the walls you need 31 m2 * 2.7 kg/m2 = 84 kg of glue, and for the floor 9.5 m2 * 4.2 kg/m2 = 40 kg. Total 84 + 40 = 124 kg. Or 5 bags of 25 kg. Or 124 kg of cement mortar.
4. Grout for joints . For the walls you will need 16 kg, for the floor 4.1 kg. Only 20 kg of grout.

As a continuation of the comment from Behemoth, I will add my own reasoning.

1. The cost of glue or cement mortar for laying tiles for a given project can be compared as follows. According to calculations, you need 125 kg of dry mixture (5 bags of 25 kg each). The minimum price for adhesive for ceramic tiles with water absorption of 3% and above is 280 rubles per 25 kg bag. We will need 5 of them. Total 5 * 280 = 1400 rubles. This applies to glue produced in the Russian Federation. Imported products will be 2-3 times more expensive. For cement mortar in a Cement: Sand ratio of 1:4, the price will be 330 rubles. We get a benefit at a price of at least 1400/330 = 4.2 times.
2. The technology for laying tiles on cement mortar is well described in the technological map TK 36-03 , the material is available on the website. Therefore, I will not copy it into the commentary, for those who are interested in reading it. I will add that I lay tiles on cement mortar using a spatula or comb with the appropriate tooth size, which depends on the size of the tile (Behemoth wrote about this). I cover the walls either from the bottom up, or using a fastening strip. Floor covering does not require any additional tricks. To fill joints I use both cement mortar and cement grout.
3. Is cement mortar safe for laying tiles ? Based on my experience I can say YES. The only controversial case of using cement mortar for laying tiles would be facing with porcelain stoneware, i.e. material with a minimum water absorption of less than 0.5%. At home and at the homes of close friends, tiles, including porcelain tiles, were laid with cement mortar; this is much cheaper, but the installation process is more labor-intensive. I carry out work at customer sites exclusively using tile adhesive. This is due to the following circumstances. Firstly, the customer always keeps the gain in the cost of materials. Secondly, the cost of work always depends on the cost of materials. Therefore, the tiler has no interest in using cheap construction chemicals.

Since we are talking about a bathroom and toilet, it is necessary to include waterproofing . For walls with gypsum plaster, either ready-to-use or two-component waterproofing is suitable. You can apply any of the waterproofing . For wall-to-wall and wall-to-floor joints, appropriate tapes made of elastic, water-repellent material must be used.

I believe that Foreman Behemoth missed this point, being carried away by calculations.

Aden , thanks for the comment, I really forgot to include waterproofing in the list of materials. I'm filling the gap.

Waterproofing . So, the floors in both rooms require mandatory waterproofing. In places where the floor adjoins the surface of walls, partitions and other building structures, waterproofing is applied to vertical surfaces to a height of at least 200 mm, and if a stream of water can hit the walls, to the soaking height. In our particular case, it is better to use two-component waterproofing. At a consumption of 1.5 kg/m2 we will need about 20 kg. Tape and patches made of elastic, water-repellent material are also needed. You need 20 meters of tape, 5 plasters.

I thank Grachik for his sincerity and simplicity in presenting his comments. I find this passage very interesting:

At home and at the homes of close friends, tiles, including porcelain tiles, were laid with cement mortar; this is much cheaper, but the installation process is more labor-intensive. I carry out work at customer sites exclusively using tile adhesive. This is due to the following circumstances. Firstly, the customer always keeps the gain in the cost of materials. Secondly, the cost of work always depends on the cost of materials. Therefore, the tiler has no interest in using cheap construction chemicals.

Here's what you can pay attention to:

1. I have already written that a high price is a price to pay for comfort in work . Now we can add: comfort in working with expensive materials means an opportunity to earn more.
2. Laying ceramic tiles is available to people of any income; in some cases, it can be done independently. Since the cost of tiles fluctuates over a wide range, the conclusion suggests itself: ceramic tiles are one of the best materials for cladding, both in terms of aesthetic and technical characteristics, and cost.

Who knows the prices for construction chemicals, please tell me approximately how much the cost of the required materials for Timofey’s ? The messages contain a list of materials and the required quantity. I would like to understand the expected costs.

Who knows the prices for construction chemicals, please tell me approximately how much the cost of the required materials for Timofey’s project will be?

Let's calculate in today's prices. Let me clarify right away that I will not give the names of the products so as not to be banned for advertising. So, let's go.

1. Tile . Floor 30x30 cm - 117 pieces - 8400 rubles. Wall 15x15 cm - 1393 pieces - 32400 rubles. Total 40800 rubles.
2. Primer . Only 1000 rubles.
3. Waterproofing . A two-component one will cost 5,000 rubles. Tape 20 m - 2900 rubles. Plasters 5 pieces - 1600 rubles. Only 9500 rubles.
4. Tile adhesive . The cost will be 3800 rubles.
5. Grout . 20 kg - 3600 rubles.

Thus we have:

• Tiles 40,800 rubles.
• Construction chemicals 17,900 rubles.

The cost of the tiles was taken at the rate of 800 rubles/m2 for floors and 1000 rubles/m2 for walls.

Behemoth , thank you for the calculation, in general I agree with your figures. In my opinion, they are very eloquent and on their basis some conclusions can be drawn. For example, these:

1. The cost of waterproofing materials in the estimate of construction chemicals is a significant part (in our example, half). Therefore, it is necessary to apply waterproofing only where it is really needed (floor plus wet areas).
2. You should not skimp on primer. As you can see, its cost is insignificant, but the consumption of subsequent layers will be economical.
3. The cost of purchasing construction chemicals is practically independent of the cost of the ceramic coating. Those. choosing ceramic tiles for 2000 rubles/m2 or 500 rubles/m2, you will spend approximately the same amount on construction chemicals.

I am sure that there are tilers on the forum who do tile laying work. Tell me, for what amount would you agree to carry out work on Timofey’s ? Dimensions, materials, costs and quantities are indicated in this forum thread. We need to build on them.

Regarding laying tiles on cement-sand mortar with your own hands. From personal experience I have the following results:

1. The ratio of components CEMENT M500: SAND: WATER in mass parts should be 1: 5: 0.45;
2. The thickness of the mortar layer is 7-15 mm depending on the size of the tile;
3. If the base under the coating has significant unevenness, then it is better to level them first using the CPR and allow to dry;
4. With a component ratio of 1: 5: 0.45, the solution will slide off the vertical surface, so the tiles on the wall should be laid from bottom to top. At the same time, there is no need to lay more than 4-5 horizontal rows at a time, otherwise the lower rows may form a “belly”;
5. It is not worth laying ceramic granite on the CPR on the street. The tile will fall off the mortar after a while.

I am sure that there are tilers on the forum who do tile laying work. Tell me how much you would agree to do the work on Timofey’s project for. Dimensions, materials, costs and quantities are indicated in this forum thread. We need to build on them.

Based on the data on the object, I would take on laying tiles at the rate of 600 rubles per m2. The area of ​​the walls and floor together is 42 m2. Therefore, we have 42*600=25200 rubles. This includes: priming, waterproofing, tiling, grouting. The period for completing the work is 7-8 days.  

I am sure that there are tilers on the forum who do tile laying work. Tell me how much you would agree to do the work on Timofey’s project for. Dimensions, materials, costs and quantities are indicated in this forum thread. We need to build on them.

My price for laying one square meter of tiles is also 600 rubles. The duration of the work is 7-8 days, the price of the work is 25,500 rubles. In this case, you can lay the tiles on a cement-sand mortar. The savings in the cost of the layer will be 3800-3800/4=2850 rubles. If the customer gives 1,500 rubles from this amount, then you can work with the CPR. The duration of the work will be 8-10 days, the price of the work will be 27,000 rubles.

I am sure that there are tilers on the forum who do tile laying work. Tell me how much you would agree to do the work on Timofey’s project for. Dimensions, materials, costs and quantities are indicated in this forum thread. We need to build on them.

The cost of laying ceramic tiles individually for this project will be 800 rubles per square meter. The area of ​​the floor and walls together is 42 m2. Thus, in general, the price for the object is 42 * 800 = 33,600 rubles. The period for completing the work is 7-8 days. To carry out the work we conclude an agreement.

Piece laying of ceramic tiles includes the following technological processes:

1. Lay out the tiles to dry, sorting them by size and color if necessary.
2. Priming the base.
3. Application of waterproofing.
4. Installation of beacons.
5. Trimming tiles with sharpening of edges if necessary.
6. Installation of a layer with mixing of the finished dry mixture.
7. Laying tiles according to a given pattern.
8. Filling seams.
9. Cleaning and wiping the coating.

There is one more expense item - a tool, so far it has amounted to 1,500 rubles.

Timofey , could you clarify what specific tools were purchased for laying ceramic tiles on cement mortar? Also, did you buy cement and sand separately or did you decide to use a ready-made mixture for screeds?

Yep, it's been a while since I came here! Well, you piled up calculations and formulas... The person was confused. I appeal to every CUSTOMER or CONSUMER - Stop getting on your nerves. Are you asking how much you will take? As a master, I’ll tell you, with such a customer - NOT FOR MUCH!!! If he is thinking about saving on tile adhesive, preferring a cement and sand solution - this is already a diagnosis! It would be better if, instead of tiles, I collected the battle near the store - everything will be more economical!!! I laid it on cement with sand, when I was still a kid, my dad and I were tiling the stove at the dacha, and we fucked for a week! And every year then they restored it. Until one day I completely remade it (with tile adhesive, by the way). What is the savings in ruining the stove, walls, floor...your mood in the end? Buy yourself the cheapest instrument for balance! So that the tile cutter breaks on the first tile :))))))))) There are different adhesives, there are very inexpensive ones. Okay, I'm confused about something. Remember gentlemen: THE STINGY PAYS TWICE

I see that the Brigadier is simply a cry from the heart :)))))))))))))))))))))) But seriously, I agree in many ways, saving on construction mixtures (glue, grout, waterproofing, etc.) is actually low in relation to savings on finishing materials or wages. It’s the same as preparing a festive table, and in the hope of saving on napkins, offer guests pieces of newspapers or toilet paper :) If you put the master within the framework of using the CPR, he will 100% use this to relieve himself of responsibility for the result or increase the cost of the work.