Do I understand correctly that if the water resistance grade W4 is indicated for concrete, then at atmospheric pressure a sample cylinder 150 mm high from such concrete will not allow water to pass through from a water column 30 m high (1 atm is equivalent to a balanced column of 10 m of water column. )? And if this concrete sample is at a pressure of 3.8 amt, then the height of the water column should not exceed 2 m?
And I find fault with myself more when I evaluate how well I laid the tiles. Clients often don’t notice many of the flaws; for the majority, as long as the tiles on the walls stay in place and the seams are more or less even :))))))))) Therefore, I myself try to make sure that my conscience doesn’t bother me, and trim so that it’s more beautiful, and to draw the angles evenly, a lot depends on the perception of the master. I know a carpenter, he has a barn at his dacha - dear mother! There is not a single level board, the roof is leaking, etc., according to the principle “it will do,” but there are people who approach it with all their hearts. This is how I try to do things so that people aren’t ashamed to look them in the eye, and my clients appreciate it. There are, of course, characters who, in order to bring down the price, find fault with every tile, but you can immediately see such people... for me it’s better not to deal with them. You won’t earn all the money, but your nerves are always more valuable :))))))
Let me disagree with you Vasily, the criteria for professionalism in laying ceramic tiles do exist, and there are standards and requirements... To begin with, you can familiarize yourself with the instructional and technological maps for institutions of primary and secondary vocational training, although they are old and In many ways they are not relevant, but the main postulates are clearly indicated there. Another thing is that our customers are not spoiled by the quality of tiling work, hence the opinion that there are no professionals in the field of laying ceramic tiles.
Thanks for the support and advice. You understood everything correctly, I am worried about the fact that I am essentially self-taught, and this makes me not confident in certain moments! When I worked with household appliances, it was easier to understand connection diagrams and even the internal structure, since this was close to me both in my specialty and in my work experience... With tiles, we plan to initially find a professional tile maker and build a couple of apartments with him and gain experience, and then do it yourself.
Actually, the essence of the question is, is it possible to learn how to lay tiles yourself, or is it better to take specialized courses? Well, just glue the tiles professionally, and not anyhow...
The main catch in the phrase is to glue tiles professionally . The fact is that there are no criteria for professionalism in laying tiles, or rather, I have not met them. In most cases, the Customer expects to receive a beautiful appearance of the lined surface without defects for 10-15 years. Both a master with and without a diploma can perform such work.
I learned how to lay tiles myself. And now I understand that a master tiler needs:
Correctly evaluate the basis;
Carefully lay out the covering and lay out the tiles;
It is reasonable to choose materials and tools for laying tiles;
In general, understand the technology of facing work;
Understand the care of cladding.
The material on the listed points is presented in the section stages of arranging ceramic cladding . This is where you should start. Next, you will need practice and study of standards and technological maps. Well, write your questions to the forum, we will answer. And they will definitely arise if you start taking action.
By the way, regarding the tiler mentor, if you find such a mentor, don’t get carried away, you can easily become a hostage to someone else’s experience. And the world of ceramic tiles is big, and it’s constantly evolving :-)
Do I understand the essence of the question correctly, should I attend special educational institutions or professional courses on laying ceramic tiles, or should I learn everything on my own in practice? If so, my advice is to concentrate on practice. The work of a tiler is largely an acquired skill; the necessary theoretical basis is actually minimal here. And modern educational institutions, unfortunately, are concentrated mainly on it. If possible, you can, of course, listen to lectures - it won’t be superfluous, but practice in laying tiles comes first!
To be honest, laying tiles is not selling you caps. There is a sea of its own subtleties and nuances. Skill and ability comes with experience. At the beginning of his journey, he left it at this for several years. But now I understand what, why and how. My opinion is that you, Evgeniy , need a mentor or experience working with a master tiler in pairs.
There is, of course, another option: try and study everything yourself (the Internet and our forum are here to help). However, time is our dearest and kindest friend.
Yes, of course you can do it yourself! I think that 90% of craftsmen are self-taught, and the fact that you have not worked with tiles before is not a problem, there is always a first time for everything. But my advice is to practice at home first, and then at the facility :)))))))))))))))
An average layer thickness of 5 mm will be sufficient.
There are no restrictions on the minimum thickness (when leveling the mixture with a spatula, you will reach zero with intact sections). Limit the maximum layer thickness to 10 mm. (There are two points here: firstly, with large thicknesses there is an overconsumption of cement, i.e. it is expensive; secondly, a larger amount of cement can lead to cracking of the surface and peeling from the base, i.e. shrinkage).
Pre-level holes and irregularities larger than 10 mm with ordinary cement mortar.
Strengthen dusty (weak) substrates with a primer, for example Keradur Eco .
What thickness of solution should be chosen when ironing using the wet method? Are there any restrictions on minimum or maximum layer thickness? What to do with pits and dusty areas?
In practice, the pressures of gaseous and liquid media can be measured relative to two different levels (see figure):
the level of absolute vacuum, or absolute zero pressure - an idealized state of the medium in a closed space, from which all molecules and atoms of the substance of the medium have been removed;
level of atmospheric, or barometric, pressure (GOST 8.271-77).
Pressure measured relative to vacuum is called absolute pressure (AP) . Barometric pressure (BP) is the absolute pressure of the earth's atmosphere. It depends on the specific measurement conditions: air temperature and altitude. Pressure that is greater or less than atmospheric, but measured relative to atmospheric pressure, is called, respectively, excess pressure (DI) or vacuum pressure, vacuum pressure (DV) . Obviously, YES=DB+DI or YES=DB–DV. When measuring the pressure difference between media in two different processes or two points of one process, such that none of the pressures is atmospheric, such a difference is called differential pressure (DP) . I believe this material can complete the discussion of pressure, since the forum thread relates to waterproofness.
Since the conversation went in such a detailed direction about pressure, I think that it is necessary to consider the types of measured pressures. For example, in the literature there are such concepts as barometric pressure, absolute pressure, excess pressure, etc. I don’t have time for this myself, I ask my colleagues to join in, it will be educational for many.
Denis , thank you very much for your detailed answer. I admit that from the first reading much was not clear, but after reading it three or four times, understanding came. It’s good that this material will be saved on the forum; you can return to it, if necessary.
Explain how to use this criterion. After all, the seller’s answer “The tiles are abrasion resistant” will always be the same. Although I believe that abrasion resistance is different for a home or office space. How is it measured, and what values should it be if you are supposed to walk barefoot, in soft shoes, or in street shoes?
Criteria for choosing ceramic tiles - abrasion resistance
An important criterion for choosing ceramic tiles is abrasion resistance. It indicates the resistance of the surface to wear due to exposure to dirt, sand, furniture, shoes, and cleaning products. It is important to understand here that if the tile is glazed, then we are talking about resistance to abrasion of the glaze. The methods for testing abrasion resistance are different for glazed and unglazed tiles.
Pressure measurement units (ST SEV 1052-89) are determined in one of two ways:
through the height of the liquid column that balances the measured pressure in a specific physical process: in units of a water column at 4°C (mmH2O or mH2O) or a mercury column at 0°C (mmHg or Torr ) and normal acceleration of gravity (in English-speaking countries the corresponding units are used in H2O, ft H2O - inch of water column, foot of water column and in Hg - inch of Hg; 1 inch = 25.4 mm, 1 ft =30.48 cm);
through units of force and area.
In the International System of Units (SI), adopted in 1960, the unit of force is N (newton) and the unit of area is m2. From here the unit of pressure is determined: pascal Pa=1 n/m2 and its derivatives, for example, kilopascal (1 kPa=10 3 Pa), megapascal (1 MPa=10 3 kPa=10 6 Pa). Along with the SI system, units of other, earlier systems, as well as non-systemic units, continue to be used in the field of pressure measurement. In the technical system of units MKGSS (meter, kilogram-force, second), force is measured in kilograms of force (1 kgf≈9.8 N). Pressure units in MGKSS are kgf/m2 and kgf/cm2; The unit kgf/cm2 is called the technical or metric atmosphere (at). When measuring excess pressure in technical atmosphere units, the designation “ati” is used. In the physical system of units CGS (centimeter, gram, second), the unit of force is the dyne (1 dyne = 10 –5 N). Within the framework of the GHS, the unit of pressure bar was introduced (1 bar = 1 dyne/cm2). There is an off-system meteorological unit of the same name, bar, or standard atmosphere (1 bar = 10 6 dynes/cm2; 1 mbar = 10 –3 bar = 10 3 dynes/cm2), which sometimes, out of context, causes confusion. In addition to the indicated units, in practice such a non-systemic unit is used as the physical or normal atmosphere (atm), which is equivalent to a balancing column of 760 mm Hg. Art. Occasionally, a pressure unit from the MTS system of units (meter, ton, second) is used: piezo (1 pz = 1 cn/m2, where 1 cn = 10 8 dynes is a force of 1 wall, imparting an acceleration of 1 m/s2 to a body weighing 1 ton ). In English-speaking countries, the widely used unit of pressure is psi (psi = lbf/in2) - pound force per square inch (1 lb = 0.4536 kg). When measuring absolute and excess pressure, the designations psia (absolute) and psig (gage) are used respectively.
For approximate estimates and calculations of pressure with a relative error of no more than 0.5%, it is useful to use the following relationships: 1 at = 1 kgf/cm2 = 10 4 kgf/m2 = 0.97 atm = 0.98 × 10 3 mbar = 0.98 bar = 10 4 mm water column = 10 m water column = 735 mm Hg. = 0.98×10 5 Pa = 98 kPa = 0.098 MPa. With an error of 2%, we can neglect the difference between the technical atmosphere, the standard atmosphere (bar) and a tenth of a megapascal (1 atm = 1 bar = 0.1 MPa), and with an error of 3%, the difference between the technical and physical atmospheres (1 atm = 1 atm).
Do I understand correctly that if the water resistance grade W4 is indicated for concrete, then at atmospheric pressure a sample cylinder 150 mm high from such concrete will not allow water to pass through from a water column 30 m high (1 atm is equivalent to a balanced column of 10 m of water column. )? And if this concrete sample is at a pressure of 3.8 amt, then the height of the water column should not exceed 2 m?
And I find fault with myself more when I evaluate how well I laid the tiles. Clients often don’t notice many of the flaws; for the majority, as long as the tiles on the walls stay in place and the seams are more or less even :))))))))) Therefore, I myself try to make sure that my conscience doesn’t bother me, and trim so that it’s more beautiful, and to draw the angles evenly, a lot depends on the perception of the master. I know a carpenter, he has a barn at his dacha - dear mother! There is not a single level board, the roof is leaking, etc., according to the principle “it will do,” but there are people who approach it with all their hearts. This is how I try to do things so that people aren’t ashamed to look them in the eye, and my clients appreciate it. There are, of course, characters who, in order to bring down the price, find fault with every tile, but you can immediately see such people... for me it’s better not to deal with them. You won’t earn all the money, but your nerves are always more valuable :))))))
Let me disagree with you Vasily, the criteria for professionalism in laying ceramic tiles do exist, and there are standards and requirements... To begin with, you can familiarize yourself with the instructional and technological maps for institutions of primary and secondary vocational training, although they are old and In many ways they are not relevant, but the main postulates are clearly indicated there. Another thing is that our customers are not spoiled by the quality of tiling work, hence the opinion that there are no professionals in the field of laying ceramic tiles.
Thanks for the support and advice. You understood everything correctly, I am worried about the fact that I am essentially self-taught, and this makes me not confident in certain moments! When I worked with household appliances, it was easier to understand connection diagrams and even the internal structure, since this was close to me both in my specialty and in my work experience... With tiles, we plan to initially find a professional tile maker and build a couple of apartments with him and gain experience, and then do it yourself.
The main catch in the phrase is to glue tiles professionally . The fact is that there are no criteria for professionalism in laying tiles, or rather, I have not met them. In most cases, the Customer expects to receive a beautiful appearance of the lined surface without defects for 10-15 years. Both a master with and without a diploma can perform such work.
I learned how to lay tiles myself. And now I understand that a master tiler needs:
The material on the listed points is presented in the section stages of arranging ceramic cladding . This is where you should start. Next, you will need practice and study of standards and technological maps. Well, write your questions to the forum, we will answer. And they will definitely arise if you start taking action.
By the way, regarding the tiler mentor, if you find such a mentor, don’t get carried away, you can easily become a hostage to someone else’s experience. And the world of ceramic tiles is big, and it’s constantly evolving :-)
Do I understand the essence of the question correctly, should I attend special educational institutions or professional courses on laying ceramic tiles, or should I learn everything on my own in practice? If so, my advice is to concentrate on practice. The work of a tiler is largely an acquired skill; the necessary theoretical basis is actually minimal here. And modern educational institutions, unfortunately, are concentrated mainly on it. If possible, you can, of course, listen to lectures - it won’t be superfluous, but practice in laying tiles comes first!
To be honest, laying tiles is not selling you caps. There is a sea of its own subtleties and nuances. Skill and ability comes with experience. At the beginning of his journey, he left it at this for several years. But now I understand what, why and how. My opinion is that you, Evgeniy , need a mentor or experience working with a master tiler in pairs.
There is, of course, another option: try and study everything yourself (the Internet and our forum are here to help). However, time is our dearest and kindest friend.
Yes, of course you can do it yourself! I think that 90% of craftsmen are self-taught, and the fact that you have not worked with tiles before is not a problem, there is always a first time for everything. But my advice is to practice at home first, and then at the facility :)))))))))))))))
I will answer in order:
What thickness of solution should be chosen when ironing using the wet method? Are there any restrictions on minimum or maximum layer thickness? What to do with pits and dusty areas?
In practice, the pressures of gaseous and liquid media can be measured relative to two different levels (see figure):
Pressure measured relative to vacuum is called absolute pressure (AP) . Barometric pressure (BP) is the absolute pressure of the earth's atmosphere. It depends on the specific measurement conditions: air temperature and altitude. Pressure that is greater or less than atmospheric, but measured relative to atmospheric pressure, is called, respectively, excess pressure (DI) or vacuum pressure, vacuum pressure (DV) . Obviously, YES=DB+DI or YES=DB–DV. When measuring the pressure difference between media in two different processes or two points of one process, such that none of the pressures is atmospheric, such a difference is called differential pressure (DP) .
I believe this material can complete the discussion of pressure, since the forum thread relates to waterproofness.
Since the conversation went in such a detailed direction about pressure, I think that it is necessary to consider the types of measured pressures. For example, in the literature there are such concepts as barometric pressure, absolute pressure, excess pressure, etc. I don’t have time for this myself, I ask my colleagues to join in, it will be educational for many.
Denis , thank you very much for your detailed answer. I admit that from the first reading much was not clear, but after reading it three or four times, understanding came. It’s good that this material will be saved on the forum; you can return to it, if necessary.
Explain how to use this criterion. After all, the seller’s answer “The tiles are abrasion resistant” will always be the same. Although I believe that abrasion resistance is different for a home or office space. How is it measured, and what values should it be if you are supposed to walk barefoot, in soft shoes, or in street shoes?
An important criterion for choosing ceramic tiles is abrasion resistance. It indicates the resistance of the surface to wear due to exposure to dirt, sand, furniture, shoes, and cleaning products. It is important to understand here that if the tile is glazed, then we are talking about resistance to abrasion of the glaze. The methods for testing abrasion resistance are different for glazed and unglazed tiles.
Information about surface hardness and its measurement on the Mohs scale is described in detail here .
I will give the characteristic values of surface hardness on the Mohs scale for ceramic facing materials:
What is the Mohs scale? How is surface hardness measured? What values on this scale are typical for ceramic tiles?
Pressure measurement units (ST SEV 1052-89) are determined in one of two ways:
In the International System of Units (SI), adopted in 1960, the unit of force is N (newton) and the unit of area is m2. From here the unit of pressure is determined: pascal Pa=1 n/m2 and its derivatives, for example, kilopascal (1 kPa=10 3 Pa), megapascal (1 MPa=10 3 kPa=10 6 Pa). Along with the SI system, units of other, earlier systems, as well as non-systemic units, continue to be used in the field of pressure measurement. In the technical system of units MKGSS (meter, kilogram-force, second), force is measured in kilograms of force (1 kgf≈9.8 N). Pressure units in MGKSS are kgf/m2 and kgf/cm2; The unit kgf/cm2 is called the technical or metric atmosphere (at). When measuring excess pressure in technical atmosphere units, the designation “ati” is used. In the physical system of units CGS (centimeter, gram, second), the unit of force is the dyne (1 dyne = 10 –5 N). Within the framework of the GHS, the unit of pressure bar was introduced (1 bar = 1 dyne/cm2). There is an off-system meteorological unit of the same name, bar, or standard atmosphere (1 bar = 10 6 dynes/cm2; 1 mbar = 10 –3 bar = 10 3 dynes/cm2), which sometimes, out of context, causes confusion. In addition to the indicated units, in practice such a non-systemic unit is used as the physical or normal atmosphere (atm), which is equivalent to a balancing column of 760 mm Hg. Art. Occasionally, a pressure unit from the MTS system of units (meter, ton, second) is used: piezo (1 pz = 1 cn/m2, where 1 cn = 10 8 dynes is a force of 1 wall, imparting an acceleration of 1 m/s2 to a body weighing 1 ton ). In English-speaking countries, the widely used unit of pressure is psi (psi = lbf/in2) - pound force per square inch (1 lb = 0.4536 kg). When measuring absolute and excess pressure, the designations psia (absolute) and psig (gage) are used respectively.
For approximate estimates and calculations of pressure with a relative error of no more than 0.5%, it is useful to use the following relationships: 1 at = 1 kgf/cm2 = 10 4 kgf/m2 = 0.97 atm = 0.98 × 10 3 mbar = 0.98 bar = 10 4 mm water column = 10 m water column = 735 mm Hg. = 0.98×10 5 Pa = 98 kPa = 0.098 MPa. With an error of 2%, we can neglect the difference between the technical atmosphere, the standard atmosphere (bar) and a tenth of a megapascal (1 atm = 1 bar = 0.1 MPa), and with an error of 3%, the difference between the technical and physical atmospheres (1 atm = 1 atm).
Can you write in more detail what pressure is in atmospheres and bars? How many atmospheres are there in 1 bar? I do not understand.
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