Did you prepare the mortar for the path yourself from cement and sand or buy it at the factory? By the way, did the concreting work take place under your supervision?
The concrete path on the street has been in use for the fourth season. In some places there are abrasions, dents, cracks, the top layer is slightly dusty. Is it possible to carry out ironing using the wet method? More precisely, will it make sense?
The wet ironing method can be used for both horizontal and vertical bases. It is necessary to sift the cement powder through a sieve. Some other strengthening materials, such as sand or “liquid” glass, can be added to the cement component. The addition of lime will give the composition elastic characteristics; its content should be equal in a ratio of 1:10 to cement. Add water to the dry mixture, resulting in a kind of “dough”. When preparing the mixture, it is important to maintain the proportion of sand and cement, which should be 1:1.
Once the solution is ready, it should be applied to the concrete base and spread with a spatula. The spreading process aims to obtain a smooth surface. Now the concrete base should be left to gain strength.
If the screed is intended to be ironed using the wet method, it is permissible to begin such work no earlier than 2 weeks after pouring the concrete . During this period, the base will have the required ratio of strength and humidity.
Next I continued leveling the old cement base in the boiler room. The dimensions of the boiler room are quite large: 6x2.5 m. The thickness of the screed layer was again taken to be 30 mm. To adhere the layers, I used adhesive milk based on IDROKOL X20, the preparation technology is described above. This time I used cement-sand mortar as a screed. The placement of beacons, mixing of components, application and leveling of the solution were carried out manually. Compared to the Litoliv Basis screed, it was more difficult to work, less comfort, more physical labor. The cost of the materials used (cement, sand, screenings) was approximately 2,000 rubles. If the work is carried out using Litoliv Basis, then 36 bags will be needed and the cost today will be 16,560 rubles.
It is true that it is worth noting that the surface from Litoliv Basis is flat, smooth, blue-black in color without additional rubbing, I believe it will not accumulate dust for a long time. For a screed made from a cement-sand mixture, additional reinforcement is required if pedestrian traffic is planned on its surface.
For use exclusively on horizontal surfaces. Let the fresh cement coating settle for a bit (about 6-7 hours). After this, you can treat the surface with a primer to increase adhesion. If there is no primer, then you can do without it.
Next, you need to evenly, for example through a sieve, scatter cement (or a special composition) over the surface of the coating in a layer of about two millimeters. The resulting layer must be compacted and left for some time (20-30 minutes). Since our surface is not yet completely dry, the powder will draw moisture out of it and turn into dough. This is what needs to be carefully smoothed, which will give the coating surface the required properties. Smoothing should be done manually with a grater or a trowel, preferably for a long time until the surface acquires a bluish-black color. Small irregularities on the surface will reduce slipping; they can be achieved by moving a grater or smoother left and right.
Why is it necessary to reinforce cement screed or concrete?
First you need to determine why cement coatings are ironed. The fact is that under the influence of gravity, particles of filler (sand, screenings) and cement settle. In this case, the top layer hardens and sets with a high water content, which negatively affects the mechanical strength and resistance to abrasion of the floor. To increase the resistance of the top layer of the floor to abrasion, use iron reinforced cement screed.
Timofey, could you clarify what specific tools were purchased for laying ceramic tiles on cement mortar? Also, did you buy cement and sand separately or did you decide to use a ready-made mixture for screeds?
To lay ceramic tiles on cement mortar, I had to buy the following tools: glass cutter, sanding block, rubber hammer, comb, rubber. ironing board, sponge.
I bought cement and sand in one place. In our “far away kingdom”, when ordering over 1000 rubles, delivery is free, so I purchased the material with a reserve. I mix the solution in a trough, without a mixer or drill.
Over the weekend, in the dressing room I poured a leveling screed onto the old cement base. To adhere the layers, I used adhesive milk based on IDROKOL X20, prepared and applied it as recommended by aden. I used Litoliv Basis as a leveling screed. All work was done by hand, including kneading. The layer thickness was 30 mm. The area of the dressing room is 6 m2. A total of 14 bags were used. Overall it was comfortable to work with. The cost of the material was 6,000 rubles.
There is one more expense item - a tool, so far it has amounted to 1,500 rubles.
Timofey , could you clarify what specific tools were purchased for laying ceramic tiles on cement mortar? Also, did you buy cement and sand separately or did you decide to use a ready-made mixture for screeds?
So, based on the results of the discussion, the following costs were revealed, a total of 84,700 rubles:
Tiles 40,800 rubles.
Construction chemicals 17,900 rubles.
Work on laying ceramic tiles 26,000 rubles.
For me, such costs are not suitable. Now let's return from numbers to reality. I will purchase the materials and lay the tiles myself. Now I already have the necessary ceramic tiles in the required volume. I purchased it in September 2014 at a sale. It is interesting that the number of floor and wall tiles that Foreman Behemoth (30x30 cm - 117 pieces, 15x15 cm - 1393 pieces) is clearly consistent with the quantity that the seller wrote out to me (30x30 cm - 118 pieces, 15x15 cm - 1390 pieces) . The cost of all the ceramic tiles cost me 12,000 rubles. The cost of construction chemicals amounted to 1,500 rubles (primer 500 rubles, cement with sand 1,000 rubles). I abandoned waterproofing (due to cost) and grout (I use cement mortar). There is one more expense item - a tool, so far it has amounted to 1,500 rubles.
My current costs are only 15,000 rubles:
Tiles 12,000 rubles.
Construction chemicals 1500 rubles.
Tool 1500 rubles.
I will begin laying the tiles in early March. I'll write about the results.
I am sure that there are tilers on the forum who do tile laying work. Tell me how much you would agree to do the work on Timofey’s project for. Dimensions, materials, costs and quantities are indicated in this forum thread. We need to build on them.
The cost of laying ceramic tiles individually for this project will be 800 rubles per square meter. The area of the floor and walls together is 42 m2. Thus, in general, the price for the object is 42 * 800 = 33,600 rubles. The period for completing the work is 7-8 days. To carry out the work we conclude an agreement.
Piece laying of ceramic tiles includes the following technological processes:
Lay out the tiles to dry, sorting them by size and color if necessary.
Priming the base.
Application of waterproofing.
Installation of beacons.
Trimming tiles with sharpening of edges if necessary.
Installation of a layer with mixing of the finished dry mixture.
I am sure that there are tilers on the forum who do tile laying work. Tell me how much you would agree to do the work on Timofey’s project for. Dimensions, materials, costs and quantities are indicated in this forum thread. We need to build on them.
My price for laying one square meter of tiles is also 600 rubles. The duration of the work is 7-8 days, the price of the work is 25,500 rubles. In this case, you can lay the tiles on a cement-sand mortar. The savings in the cost of the layer will be 3800-3800/4=2850 rubles. If the customer gives 1,500 rubles from this amount, then you can work with the CPR. The duration of the work will be 8-10 days, the price of the work will be 27,000 rubles.
I am sure that there are tilers on the forum who do tile laying work. Tell me how much you would agree to do the work on Timofey’s project for. Dimensions, materials, costs and quantities are indicated in this forum thread. We need to build on them.
Based on the data on the object, I would take on laying tiles at the rate of 600 rubles per m2. The area of the walls and floor together is 42 m2. Therefore, we have 42*600=25200 rubles. This includes: priming, waterproofing, tiling, grouting. The period for completing the work is 7-8 days.
Regarding laying tiles on cement-sand mortar with your own hands. From personal experience I have the following results:
The ratio of components CEMENT M500: SAND: WATER in mass parts should be 1: 5: 0.45;
The thickness of the mortar layer is 7-15 mm depending on the size of the tile;
If the base under the coating has significant unevenness, then it is better to level them first using the CPR and allow to dry;
With a component ratio of 1: 5: 0.45, the solution will slide off the vertical surface, so the tiles on the wall should be laid from bottom to top. At the same time, there is no need to lay more than 4-5 horizontal rows at a time, otherwise the lower rows may form a “belly”;
It is not worth laying ceramic granite on the CPR on the street. The tile will fall off the mortar after a while.
As a latex additive for adhesive milk, you can use a product from Kerakoll - Keraplast Eco P6. It improves the adhesion of bonding layers of mortars, ensuring the density and uniformity of mineral mortars and mineral screeds.
Mode of application . First mix Keraplast Eco P6 with water in the required ratio, and then add cement and aggregates. Mix thoroughly to avoid the formation of lumps. Recommended proportions:
adhesion solutions : 1 part Keraplast Eco P6; 1 part water; 2.5 parts cement.
improved cement mortars : 1 part Keraplast Eco P6; 2.5 parts water; 5 parts cement; 10 parts filler.
I am sure that there are tilers on the forum who do tile laying work. Tell me, for what amount would you agree to carry out work on Timofey’s ? Dimensions, materials, costs and quantities are indicated in this forum thread. We need to build on them.
Behemoth , thank you for the calculation, in general I agree with your figures. In my opinion, they are very eloquent and on their basis some conclusions can be drawn. For example, these:
The cost of waterproofing materials in the estimate of construction chemicals is a significant part (in our example, half). Therefore, it is necessary to apply waterproofing only where it is really needed (floor plus wet areas).
You should not skimp on primer. As you can see, its cost is insignificant, but the consumption of subsequent layers will be economical.
The cost of purchasing construction chemicals is practically independent of the cost of the ceramic coating. Those. choosing ceramic tiles for 2000 rubles/m2 or 500 rubles/m2, you will spend approximately the same amount on construction chemicals.
Who knows the prices for construction chemicals, please tell me approximately how much the cost of the required materials for Timofey’s project will be?
Let's calculate in today's prices. Let me clarify right away that I will not give the names of the products so as not to be banned for advertising. So, let's go.
Tile . Floor 30x30 cm - 117 pieces - 8400 rubles. Wall 15x15 cm - 1393 pieces - 32400 rubles. Total 40800 rubles.
Primer . Only 1000 rubles.
Waterproofing . A two-component one will cost 5,000 rubles. Tape 20 m - 2900 rubles. Plasters 5 pieces - 1600 rubles. Only 9500 rubles.
Tile adhesive . The cost will be 3800 rubles.
Grout . 20 kg - 3600 rubles.
Thus we have:
Tiles 40,800 rubles.
Construction chemicals 17,900 rubles.
The cost of the tiles was taken at the rate of 800 rubles/m2 for floors and 1000 rubles/m2 for walls.
Due to interest in H40 Eco Marmorex , a detailed description has been added to the website. This product has unique characteristics and it is difficult to find analogues. Due to the significant cost, it is delivered to order. Video material on the product has not yet been publicly available. I have a branded video from the Kerakoll company, although the resolution is rather weak, so we won’t post it on the site. I can provide it to you upon request (write to me in the private message module on the site). The video shows in detail the process of cladding a 6-story building with new marble slabs, in Russian. Additionally, we contacted a representative of the Kerakoll company, they confirmed to us that there is video material on the H40 Eco Marmorex. As soon as it is provided, we will post it on the website.
Did you prepare the mortar for the path yourself from cement and sand or buy it at the factory? By the way, did the concreting work take place under your supervision?
The concrete path on the street has been in use for the fourth season. In some places there are abrasions, dents, cracks, the top layer is slightly dusty. Is it possible to carry out ironing using the wet method? More precisely, will it make sense?
The wet ironing method can be used for both horizontal and vertical bases. It is necessary to sift the cement powder through a sieve. Some other strengthening materials, such as sand or “liquid” glass, can be added to the cement component. The addition of lime will give the composition elastic characteristics; its content should be equal in a ratio of 1:10 to cement. Add water to the dry mixture, resulting in a kind of “dough”. When preparing the mixture, it is important to maintain the proportion of sand and cement, which should be 1:1.
Once the solution is ready, it should be applied to the concrete base and spread with a spatula. The spreading process aims to obtain a smooth surface. Now the concrete base should be left to gain strength.
If the screed is intended to be ironed using the wet method, it is permissible to begin such work no earlier than 2 weeks after pouring the concrete . During this period, the base will have the required ratio of strength and humidity.
Next I continued leveling the old cement base in the boiler room. The dimensions of the boiler room are quite large: 6x2.5 m. The thickness of the screed layer was again taken to be 30 mm. To adhere the layers, I used adhesive milk based on IDROKOL X20, the preparation technology is described above. This time I used cement-sand mortar as a screed. The placement of beacons, mixing of components, application and leveling of the solution were carried out manually. Compared to the Litoliv Basis screed, it was more difficult to work, less comfort, more physical labor. The cost of the materials used (cement, sand, screenings) was approximately 2,000 rubles. If the work is carried out using Litoliv Basis, then 36 bags will be needed and the cost today will be 16,560 rubles.
It is true that it is worth noting that the surface from Litoliv Basis is flat, smooth, blue-black in color without additional rubbing, I believe it will not accumulate dust for a long time. For a screed made from a cement-sand mixture, additional reinforcement is required if pedestrian traffic is planned on its surface.
For use exclusively on horizontal surfaces. Let the fresh cement coating settle for a bit (about 6-7 hours). After this, you can treat the surface with a primer to increase adhesion. If there is no primer, then you can do without it.
Next, you need to evenly, for example through a sieve, scatter cement (or a special composition) over the surface of the coating in a layer of about two millimeters. The resulting layer must be compacted and left for some time (20-30 minutes). Since our surface is not yet completely dry, the powder will draw moisture out of it and turn into dough. This is what needs to be carefully smoothed, which will give the coating surface the required properties. Smoothing should be done manually with a grater or a trowel, preferably for a long time until the surface acquires a bluish-black color. Small irregularities on the surface will reduce slipping; they can be achieved by moving a grater or smoother left and right.
First you need to determine why cement coatings are ironed. The fact is that under the influence of gravity, particles of filler (sand, screenings) and cement settle. In this case, the top layer hardens and sets with a high water content, which negatively affects the mechanical strength and resistance to abrasion of the floor. To increase the resistance of the top layer of the floor to abrasion, use iron reinforced cement screed.
To lay ceramic tiles on cement mortar, I had to buy the following tools: glass cutter, sanding block, rubber hammer, comb, rubber. ironing board, sponge.
I bought cement and sand in one place. In our “far away kingdom”, when ordering over 1000 rubles, delivery is free, so I purchased the material with a reserve. I mix the solution in a trough, without a mixer or drill.
For interested individuals, I will provide a list of interstate standards related to ceramic tiles:
Over the weekend, in the dressing room I poured a leveling screed onto the old cement base. To adhere the layers, I used adhesive milk based on IDROKOL X20, prepared and applied it as recommended by aden. I used Litoliv Basis as a leveling screed. All work was done by hand, including kneading. The layer thickness was 30 mm. The area of the dressing room is 6 m2. A total of 14 bags were used. Overall it was comfortable to work with. The cost of the material was 6,000 rubles.
Timofey , could you clarify what specific tools were purchased for laying ceramic tiles on cement mortar? Also, did you buy cement and sand separately or did you decide to use a ready-made mixture for screeds?
Thank you all for your comments and views. I decided to sum up the interim results. Initial data on the object:
So, based on the results of the discussion, the following costs were revealed, a total of 84,700 rubles:
For me, such costs are not suitable. Now let's return from numbers to reality. I will purchase the materials and lay the tiles myself. Now I already have the necessary ceramic tiles in the required volume. I purchased it in September 2014 at a sale. It is interesting that the number of floor and wall tiles that Foreman Behemoth (30x30 cm - 117 pieces, 15x15 cm - 1393 pieces) is clearly consistent with the quantity that the seller wrote out to me (30x30 cm - 118 pieces, 15x15 cm - 1390 pieces) . The cost of all the ceramic tiles cost me 12,000 rubles. The cost of construction chemicals amounted to 1,500 rubles (primer 500 rubles, cement with sand 1,000 rubles). I abandoned waterproofing (due to cost) and grout (I use cement mortar). There is one more expense item - a tool, so far it has amounted to 1,500 rubles.
My current costs are only 15,000 rubles:
I will begin laying the tiles in early March. I'll write about the results.
The cost of laying ceramic tiles individually for this project will be 800 rubles per square meter. The area of the floor and walls together is 42 m2. Thus, in general, the price for the object is 42 * 800 = 33,600 rubles. The period for completing the work is 7-8 days. To carry out the work we conclude an agreement.
Piece laying of ceramic tiles includes the following technological processes:
My price for laying one square meter of tiles is also 600 rubles. The duration of the work is 7-8 days, the price of the work is 25,500 rubles. In this case, you can lay the tiles on a cement-sand mortar. The savings in the cost of the layer will be 3800-3800/4=2850 rubles. If the customer gives 1,500 rubles from this amount, then you can work with the CPR. The duration of the work will be 8-10 days, the price of the work will be 27,000 rubles.
Based on the data on the object, I would take on laying tiles at the rate of 600 rubles per m2. The area of the walls and floor together is 42 m2. Therefore, we have 42*600=25200 rubles. This includes: priming, waterproofing, tiling, grouting. The period for completing the work is 7-8 days.
Regarding laying tiles on cement-sand mortar with your own hands. From personal experience I have the following results:
As a latex additive for adhesive milk, you can use a product from Kerakoll - Keraplast Eco P6. It improves the adhesion of bonding layers of mortars, ensuring the density and uniformity of mineral mortars and mineral screeds.
Mode of application . First mix Keraplast Eco P6 with water in the required ratio, and then add cement and aggregates. Mix thoroughly to avoid the formation of lumps. Recommended proportions:
Additionally, read the technical data sheet for the product.
I am sure that there are tilers on the forum who do tile laying work. Tell me, for what amount would you agree to carry out work on Timofey’s ? Dimensions, materials, costs and quantities are indicated in this forum thread. We need to build on them.
Behemoth , thank you for the calculation, in general I agree with your figures. In my opinion, they are very eloquent and on their basis some conclusions can be drawn. For example, these:
Let's calculate in today's prices. Let me clarify right away that I will not give the names of the products so as not to be banned for advertising. So, let's go.
Thus we have:
The cost of the tiles was taken at the rate of 800 rubles/m2 for floors and 1000 rubles/m2 for walls.
Due to interest in H40 Eco Marmorex , a detailed description has been added to the website.
This product has unique characteristics and it is difficult to find analogues. Due to the significant cost, it is delivered to order. Video material on the product has not yet been publicly available.
I have a branded video from the Kerakoll company, although the resolution is rather weak, so we won’t post it on the site. I can provide it to you upon request (write to me in the private message module on the site). The video shows in detail the process of cladding a 6-story building with new marble slabs, in Russian. Additionally, we contacted a representative of the Kerakoll company, they confirmed to us that there is video material on the H40 Eco Marmorex. As soon as it is provided, we will post it on the website.
Pages