I need to clad the facade of a two-story building with heavy slabs of light marble. Since the project is “serious” and the budget for construction chemicals allows the use of professional materials, I would like to use the Keracoll product line. I’m familiar with some products (I’ve used them at work), but H40 Eco Marmorex glue remains a mystery. I couldn’t find the video on the Internet; the technical information is presented scatteredly and contradictory. Maybe someone has a selection of information on this product, please share, I’ll remember with a kind word.
Who knows the prices for construction chemicals, please tell me approximately how much the cost of the required materials for Timofey’s ? The messages contain a list of materials and the required quantity. I would like to understand the expected costs.
Another option for cladding the floor and steps would be to use collectible ceramic granite. The result can be assessed in the photograph.
The advantages of this solution : 1) non-standard background tiles; 2) excellent technical characteristics of the material even with high abrasive effects and movement of carts; 3) the coating looks attractive and expensive; 4) visitors and store employees treat such coating with care; 5) there is a possibility of a design solution; 6) steps can be realized using special profiles.
Disadvantages of this solution : 1) high final cost (1 sq.m of tiles from 1000 to 2000 rubles, threshold for a step 2000 rubles per 250 cm, work of a master 800-1000 rubles per 1 sq.m); 2) daily care is required to maintain high aesthetic properties.
As a continuation of the comment from Behemoth, I will add my own reasoning.
The cost of glue or cement mortar for laying tiles for a given project can be compared as follows. According to calculations, you need 125 kg of dry mixture (5 bags of 25 kg each). The minimum price for adhesive for ceramic tiles with water absorption of 3% and above is 280 rubles per 25 kg bag. We will need 5 of them. Total 5 * 280 = 1400 rubles. This applies to glue produced in the Russian Federation. Imported products will be 2-3 times more expensive. For cement mortar in a Cement: Sand ratio of 1:4, the price will be 330 rubles. We get a benefit at a price of at least 1400/330 = 4.2 times.
The technology for laying tiles on cement mortar is well described in the technological map TK 36-03 , the material is available on the website. Therefore, I will not copy it into the commentary, for those who are interested in reading it. I will add that I lay tiles on cement mortar using a spatula or comb with the appropriate tooth size, which depends on the size of the tile (Behemoth wrote about this). I cover the walls either from the bottom up, or using a fastening strip. Floor covering does not require any additional tricks. To fill joints I use both cement mortar and cement grout.
Is cement mortar safe for laying tiles ? Based on my experience I can say YES. The only controversial case of using cement mortar for laying tiles would be facing with porcelain stoneware, i.e. material with a minimum water absorption of less than 0.5%. At home and at the homes of close friends, tiles, including porcelain tiles, were laid with cement mortar; this is much cheaper, but the installation process is more labor-intensive. I carry out work at customer sites exclusively using tile adhesive. This is due to the following circumstances. Firstly, the customer always keeps the gain in the cost of materials. Secondly, the cost of work always depends on the cost of materials. Therefore, the tiler has no interest in using cheap construction chemicals.
I thank Grachik for his sincerity and simplicity in presenting his comments. I find this passage very interesting:
At home and at the homes of close friends, tiles, including porcelain tiles, were laid with cement mortar; this is much cheaper, but the installation process is more labor-intensive. I carry out work at customer sites exclusively using tile adhesive. This is due to the following circumstances. Firstly, the customer always keeps the gain in the cost of materials. Secondly, the cost of work always depends on the cost of materials. Therefore, the tiler has no interest in using cheap construction chemicals.
Laying ceramic tiles is available to people of any income; in some cases, it can be done independently. Since the cost of tiles fluctuates over a wide range, the conclusion suggests itself: ceramic tiles are one of the best materials for cladding, both in terms of aesthetic and technical characteristics, and cost.
The correct solution for cladding the floor and steps would be to use clinker , both glazed and unglazed. In the photo on the right you can see how beautiful it looks.
The advantages of this solution : 1) the background tiles are equipped with steps; 2) excellent technical characteristics of the material even with high abrasive effects and movement of carts on rubber wheels; 3) the coating looks attractive and expensive; 4) visitors treat such coverage more carefully; 5) there is a possibility of a design solution.
Disadvantages of this solution : 1) high final cost (1 sq.m of tiles from 1500 to 2000 rubles, steps 300-400 rubles per piece, work of a master 800-1000 rubles per 1 sq.m); 2) daily care is required to maintain high aesthetic properties.
Aden , thanks for the comment, I really forgot to include waterproofing in the list of materials. I'm filling the gap.
Waterproofing . So, the floors in both rooms require mandatory waterproofing. In places where the floor adjoins the surface of walls, partitions and other building structures, waterproofing is applied to vertical surfaces to a height of at least 200 mm, and if a stream of water can hit the walls, to the soaking height. In our particular case, it is better to use two-component waterproofing. At a consumption of 1.5 kg/m2 we will need about 20 kg. Tape and patches made of elastic, water-repellent material are also needed. You need 20 meters of tape, 5 plasters.
Since we are talking about a bathroom and toilet, it is necessary to include waterproofing . For walls with gypsum plaster, either ready-to-use or two-component waterproofing is suitable. You can apply any of the waterproofing . For wall-to-wall and wall-to-floor joints, appropriate tapes made of elastic, water-repellent material must be used.
I believe that Foreman Behemoth missed this point, being carried away by calculations.
Olga Vladimirovna , at your request we can offer several options for store cladding. I will provide information in several messages. By the way, regarding the main question: tiles or porcelain stoneware ? In my opinion, it is set incorrectly, because... Porcelain stoneware is also tile. But I think I got the gist and will provide the necessary information.
So, option one. He was essentially voiced by Vovka . Technical porcelain tiles are really suitable. The advantages of this solution : 1) there are steps leading up to the background tile; 2) excellent technical characteristics of the material even with high abrasive effects and movement of carts; 3) cost of 1 sq.m. tiles cost about 400 rubles. 4) the tiles can be laid directly on the old cladding (if it holds up well), because the thickness of the glue + tile will be only 10-15 mm. Disadvantages of this solution : 1) limited design possibilities, tiles of a “very simple look”. 2) the steps will look “simple”.
1. Bathroom (LxWxH) - 295x215x245, toilet (LxW) - 150x215, cladding height 110 cm. 2. Wall tiles 15x15 cm, floor tiles 30x30 cm. 3. Wall - brick + gypsum plaster + lime whitewash, floor - cement screed + linoleum. 4. Plumbing lines for risers to appliances have been installed. 5. The bathtub is installed on legs; I don’t plan to cover it or wall it up. 6. Hooks and brackets for hanging sanitary fixtures have been supplied.
You can estimate the required materials :
Tile . For the floor in the bathroom you will need 75 pieces, for the floor in the toilet you will need 38 pieces, size 30x30 cm. Accordingly, for the walls 1063 pieces and 330 pieces, size 15x15 cm.
Primer . The total area of the walls of the bathroom and toilet is 25 + 18 = 43 m2. Primer consumption is 0.2 kg/m2, i.e. 8.6 kg required. Since the walls are lined with gypsum plaster, an insulating primer such as Primer A Eco will be required. The total floor area is 6.3 + 3.2 = 9.5 m2, i.e. 1.9 kg required. Since the floor is a cement screed, any primer can be used.
Tile adhesive or cement mortar . In our example, to lay tiles on the floor and wall, you can use tile adhesive with adhesion from 0.5 MPa (class C1). If porcelain tiles were laid on the floor, then tile adhesive with adhesion of 1 MPa (class C2) would be needed. When laying tiles measuring 15x15 cm, the trowel tooth size is 6 mm, consumption is 2.7 kg/m2; tiles measuring 30x30 cm, spatula tooth size 10 mm, consumption 4.2 kg/m2. Thus, for the walls you need 31 m2 * 2.7 kg/m2 = 84 kg of glue, and for the floor 9.5 m2 * 4.2 kg/m2 = 40 kg. Total 84 + 40 = 124 kg. Or 5 bags of 25 kg. Or 124 kg of cement mortar.
Grout for joints . For the walls you will need 16 kg, for the floor 4.1 kg. Only 20 kg of grout.
Using porcelain stoneware outdoors is actually not that critical. Indeed, due to low water absorption, there is a risk of the “greenhouse effect”, but this applies to large formats. If you lay porcelain tiles with a format of 30x30 cm, with a 10 mm seam, using suitable adhesive (class C2), then there will be no problems!
Foreman Behemoth , I will try to describe my situation in detail: 1. The tiles will only be on the floor. 2. Stairs on the street, but I would like the floor and steps to be made in the same color. 3. Gray tiles (speckled), 30x30, some tiles are broken. 4. The price is preferably no higher than 2000 rubles. 5. More than 100 people a day, I hope after the renovation there will be even more visitors :) 6. Carts move around the store and there are very heavy shelves.
Timofey , for floor tiles you indicated only the size of 30x30 cm, but what about water absorption? This parameter affects the choice of tile adhesive. For example, for porcelain stoneware - water absorption is less than 0.5% - you need glue with increased adhesion (accordingly, the price of the glue is higher).
Regarding the linoleum on the floor. Is it glued or just lying in a piece on the cement screed?
No, wait, what do you mean by “got it”? Outdoor porch? If so, then in general there are opinions that porcelain stoneware cannot be laid outdoors at all. It practically does not absorb water, the base underneath does not “breathe”. After 2-3 seasons, the tiles simply bounce off. I saw a video on YouTube where one smart guy talked about these problems. In Europe, clinker is used for these purposes; it has just the right properties - durable, frost-resistant and non-slip. And inside, of course, porcelain tiles are not much different in price from tiles, but are much more reliable in operation.
Why so many questions? So, it’s clear that the grocery store is small, minimal repairs are needed. The best option here is technical porcelain stoneware, for example from the manufacturer Piastrella. The price of tiles is 300-400 rubles per square meter, there are also steps that are sold by square meters. The price tag for them is the same. If desired, the walls can also be tiled. Therefore, take technical ceramic granite and continue to trade.
I agree with Behemoth , additional information is needed, at least on the first three points. For my part, I will calculate the cost of materials for installation: cement-sand mortar vs tile adhesive. I will describe how I lay tiles on cement mortar with my own hands. For specific sizes and materials, it will be possible to discuss the approximate cost of the work.
I need to clad the facade of a two-story building with heavy slabs of light marble. Since the project is “serious” and the budget for construction chemicals allows the use of professional materials, I would like to use the Keracoll product line. I’m familiar with some products (I’ve used them at work), but H40 Eco Marmorex glue remains a mystery. I couldn’t find the video on the Internet; the technical information is presented scatteredly and contradictory. Maybe someone has a selection of information on this product, please share, I’ll remember with a kind word.
Who knows the prices for construction chemicals, please tell me approximately how much the cost of the required materials for Timofey’s ? The messages contain a list of materials and the required quantity. I would like to understand the expected costs.
The advantages of this solution :
1) non-standard background tiles;
2) excellent technical characteristics of the material even with high abrasive effects and movement of carts;
3) the coating looks attractive and expensive;
4) visitors and store employees treat such coating with care;
5) there is a possibility of a design solution;
6) steps can be realized using special profiles.
Disadvantages of this solution :
1) high final cost (1 sq.m of tiles from 1000 to 2000 rubles, threshold for a step 2000 rubles per 250 cm, work of a master 800-1000 rubles per 1 sq.m);
2) daily care is required to maintain high aesthetic properties.
As a continuation of the comment from Behemoth, I will add my own reasoning.
I thank Grachik for his sincerity and simplicity in presenting his comments. I find this passage very interesting:
Here's what you can pay attention to:
The advantages of this solution :
1) the background tiles are equipped with steps;
2) excellent technical characteristics of the material even with high abrasive effects and movement of carts on rubber wheels;
3) the coating looks attractive and expensive;
4) visitors treat such coverage more carefully;
5) there is a possibility of a design solution.
Disadvantages of this solution :
1) high final cost (1 sq.m of tiles from 1500 to 2000 rubles, steps 300-400 rubles per piece, work of a master 800-1000 rubles per 1 sq.m);
2) daily care is required to maintain high aesthetic properties.
Aden , thanks for the comment, I really forgot to include waterproofing in the list of materials. I'm filling the gap.
Waterproofing . So, the floors in both rooms require mandatory waterproofing. In places where the floor adjoins the surface of walls, partitions and other building structures, waterproofing is applied to vertical surfaces to a height of at least 200 mm, and if a stream of water can hit the walls, to the soaking height. In our particular case, it is better to use two-component waterproofing. At a consumption of 1.5 kg/m2 we will need about 20 kg. Tape and patches made of elastic, water-repellent material are also needed. You need 20 meters of tape, 5 plasters.
Since we are talking about a bathroom and toilet, it is necessary to include waterproofing . For walls with gypsum plaster, either ready-to-use or two-component waterproofing is suitable. You can apply any of the waterproofing . For wall-to-wall and wall-to-floor joints, appropriate tapes made of elastic, water-repellent material must be used.
I believe that Foreman Behemoth missed this point, being carried away by calculations.
Grishin Mikhail , I am very unhappy with the tile, first of all its appearance. I want it to be beautiful and not have to be redone.
Foreman Behemoth , I believe there will be even more beautiful options. Thanks, I'll wait.
Olga Vladimirovna , why are you not satisfied with the tiles that are laid now? Maybe just replace the ones that are broken?
So, option one. He was essentially voiced by Vovka .
Technical porcelain tiles are really suitable. The advantages of this solution :
1) there are steps leading up to the background tile;
2) excellent technical characteristics of the material even with high abrasive effects and movement of carts;
3) cost of 1 sq.m.
tiles cost about 400 rubles. 4) the tiles can be laid directly on the old cladding (if it holds up well), because
the thickness of the glue + tile will be only 10-15 mm. Disadvantages of this solution :
1) limited design possibilities, tiles of a “very simple look”.
2) the steps will look “simple”.
Having data on the object
You can estimate the required materials :
Floor tiles size 30x30 cm, water absorption about 3%. The sales assistant in the store said something like “monocottura”.
The linoleum on the floor actually lies in a piece on a cement screed, not glued.
Using porcelain stoneware outdoors is actually not that critical. Indeed, due to low water absorption, there is a risk of the “greenhouse effect”, but this applies to large formats. If you lay porcelain tiles with a format of 30x30 cm, with a 10 mm seam, using suitable adhesive (class C2), then there will be no problems!
Foreman Behemoth , I will try to describe my situation in detail:
1. The tiles will only be on the floor.
2. Stairs on the street, but I would like the floor and steps to be made in the same color.
3. Gray tiles (speckled), 30x30, some tiles are broken.
4. The price is preferably no higher than 2000 rubles.
5. More than 100 people a day, I hope after the renovation there will be even more visitors :)
6. Carts move around the store and there are very heavy shelves.
Timofey , for floor tiles you indicated only the size of 30x30 cm, but what about water absorption? This parameter affects the choice of tile adhesive. For example, for porcelain stoneware - water absorption is less than 0.5% - you need glue with increased adhesion (accordingly, the price of the glue is higher).
Regarding the linoleum on the floor. Is it glued or just lying in a piece on the cement screed?
No, wait, what do you mean by “got it”? Outdoor porch? If so, then in general there are opinions that porcelain stoneware cannot be laid outdoors at all. It practically does not absorb water, the base underneath does not “breathe”. After 2-3 seasons, the tiles simply bounce off. I saw a video on YouTube where one smart guy talked about these problems. In Europe, clinker is used for these purposes; it has just the right properties - durable, frost-resistant and non-slip. And inside, of course, porcelain tiles are not much different in price from tiles, but are much more reliable in operation.
To get the full picture, I’ll answer the Foreman’s point by point:
Why so many questions? So, it’s clear that the grocery store is small, minimal repairs are needed. The best option here is technical porcelain stoneware, for example from the manufacturer Piastrella. The price of tiles is 300-400 rubles per square meter, there are also steps that are sold by square meters. The price tag for them is the same. If desired, the walls can also be tiled. Therefore, take technical ceramic granite and continue to trade.
I agree with Behemoth , additional information is needed, at least on the first three points. For my part, I will calculate the cost of materials for installation: cement-sand mortar vs tile adhesive. I will describe how I lay tiles on cement mortar with my own hands. For specific sizes and materials, it will be possible to discuss the approximate cost of the work.
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