Timofey, let’s look at this topic in detail using the example of your bathroom and toilet. For advice and discussion, you must first clarify the information. Specifically interested in the following:
Bathroom dimensions (length, width, height). For the toilet - length, width, height of the lining.
Tile format for walls and floors, as well as water absorption for floor tiles.
Construction and base material (separately for walls and floors).
Plumbing pipes for risers to appliances (heating, plumbing) were installed and pressed together.
Bath installed.
Plugs, hooks and brackets for hanging sanitary fixtures have been supplied.
Olga Vladimirovna, in order to give you practical advice, it is necessary to clarify the following questions: 1. Will the repairs in the store affect only the floor or will you also cover the walls with tiles? 2. Stairs indoors or outdoors? Or are we talking about a couple of steps at the entrance? 3. What material is currently used as a coating? 4. Is it possible to afford the use of tiles costing 1000-2000 rubles m2? 5. What is the traffic in the store 10, 50, 100 people per day? 6. Will there be wheeled carts moving around the store?
Starting this forum thread, I wanted to jointly find answers to the following problems:
highlight the main parameters by which classification of ceramic tiles is possible;
classify ceramic tiles;
For each type of tile, indicate the area of application.
Let me sum up the intermediate results. We managed to find information on all tasks. Thanks to this forum thread, the “Standards” section on the website has been updated. The European standard EN 14411 , which can be consulted on issues of classification, quality indicators and labeling of ceramic tiles and slabs. Also on the site appeared the interstate standard GOST 6787-2001 , which applies to glazed and unglazed floor tiles.
Texture, permeability, mineral content, history of stone formation - all these properties are of great importance both for the process of laying the stone and for its further operational purpose. If natural stone is exposed to water, it will easily penetrate through the pores of the stone. Porosity ensures the spread of water, which, of course, affects natural stone and leads to a number of problems: deformation , staining , and the formation of efflorescence . Since the question concerned staining, I will describe this problem in more detail.
The coloring agent penetrates into the natural stone along with water. As soon as the water evaporates, the coloring substance is concentrated and, as a result, leads to the coloring of natural stone. These substances are found in the stone itself , come from the installation adhesive , or are contained in the base . The use of adhesive mixtures based on white cement can significantly reduce or completely eliminate the influence of the last two points.
For those who want to carry out the work of preparing and applying adhesive milk on their own, I will give a few recommendations.
When performing thin-layer putty or adjacent screeds, before work it is necessary to treat the existing surface with adhesive cement “milk” prepared from IDROKOL X20, water and cement, taken in equal proportions (1:1:1). Apply adhesive laitance with a brush, roller or brush. Immediately apply the cement mortar mixed with IDROKOL X20, fresh on fresh, before the adhesive cement “milk” forms a surface film. After application, level and compact the mortar.
Preparation of adhesive milk Mix in a clean container 1 part of clean water (t° from +10° to 20°C), 1 part of IDROKOL X20-m. Pour 1 weight part of cement into the resulting liquid while continuously mixing with an electric drill with a special mixing attachment until a homogeneous liquid solution without lumps is obtained.
Slavny Zhuk , in my practice I use a latex additive based on an aqueous dispersion of synthetic resins IDROKOL X20-m (manufactured by Litokol). This product is easy to use and also reliable in use. I use IDROKOL X20m to prepare adhesive cement laitance, which I use to treat the surface to continue pouring between old and fresh concrete. also use adhesive cement laitance to bond new cement-based screeds to old substrates .
Grachik , could you explain which latex additive you are working with (name, manufacturer).
Also interesting is the opinion of those who used latex additives based on an aqueous dispersion of synthetic resins. Provide specific examples of products.
I agree, we are talking about adhesive milk. It must be prepared in the ratio of components cement + latex additive + water - 1:1:1 . There is disagreement among workers about the proportion: by mass or by volume . On real objects, for convenience, we use the proportion by volume. In cases of shortage of latex additive or its absence, you can use cement laitance in a 1:1 ratio, although cement laitance dries faster than adhesive laitance. Therefore, we apply it to a small area.
As I understand it, he was talking about adhesive milk based on cement, latex additive and water. They need to be mixed in certain proportions. Next, treat the old DSP or concrete base with this milk, and then fill in the leveling screed. The main thing here is to carry out the work “wet on wet” until the milk dries. As a result, the screed will be “welded” to the base.
The technical data sheet for Coverflex waterproofing says that the consumption is 1.6 kg/m2 for each mm of thickness. Since the waterproofing is two-component (component A powder 20 kg, component B liquid 10 kg), the question arises how to calculate the consumption of Coverflex waterproofing ? The correct approach should be this: consumption is calculated based on the dry component . In our case, component A powder is 20 kg. With a layer thickness of 1 mm, a surface of 12.5 m2 can be treated.
Fugalite Eco Invisibile epoxy grout is recommended for filling joints from 0 to 3 mm. This limitation is due to the fact that with such a joint width the effect without a discontinuous plane is pronounced for glass mosaics, ceramic parquet and stone cladding. If such an effect is not needed, then you can grout seams up to 20 mm wide.
Fugalite Eco epoxy grout has a neutro color, which is positioned as transparent. The technical data sheet states: “Thanks to the transparency of the micro glass beads, Fugalite Eco (neutro color) reflects and diffuses light, reflecting the colors of tiles and mosaics, creating the amazing impression of a continuous finish.” Adhesion between porcelain stoneware and concrete more than 1.5 MPa. This suggests that this grout can be used as an adhesive.
Thus, Fugalite Eco epoxy grout (neutro color) is a good example of a transparent adhesive and grout for tiles and mosaics.
Classification of ceramic tiles and slabs EN 14411
I got acquainted with the European standard EN 14411 (thanks to Associate Professor ). Indeed, according to this standard, ceramic tiles and slabs are divided into 12 groups according to their manufacturing method and water absorption. However, the groups do not specify the scope of application of ceramic tiles and slabs.
The classification uses two manufacturing methods:
Method A molding, extruded ceramic tiles and slabs;
molding method B, ceramic tiles and semi-dry pressing slabs.
Based on water absorption (E), ceramic tiles and slabs are divided into the following three groups:
ceramic tiles and slabs with low water absorption (group I), E < 3%. Inside there is a separation of E < 0.5% and 0.5% < E < 3%;
ceramic tiles and slabs with medium water absorption (group II), 3% < E < 10% . Inside there is a division of 3% < E < 6% and 6% < E < 10%;
ceramic tiles and slabs with high water absorption (group III), E > 10%.
Requirements for dimensions and surface quality, as well as physical and chemical indicators must correspond to the data specified in the relevant annex of the standard for each group of ceramic tiles and slabs.
The influence of temperature on the hardening rate of CPR
As a rule, it is recommended to carry out screed pouring work at temperatures from +5 to +35 degrees Celsius. Therefore, the question arises: how does temperature affect the rate of hardening of Portland cements. Here I deliberately write “Portland cement” because... the following reasoning is valid for both CPR and dry mixtures in bags.
So, temperature has a great influence on the hardening of cement. The hardening speed at low temperatures from 0 to +8 degrees Celsius is 2-3 times less than at ordinary temperatures from +15 to +25 degrees Celsius. At temperatures below 0 degrees Celsius, hardening processes almost completely stop. An increase in the temperature of hardening solutions is accompanied by an acceleration in the growth of strength. It becomes noticeable at a mixture temperature of 30 - 40 degrees Celsius when they harden during warm periods of the year. However, the intense effect of temperature on the hardening of cements manifests itself only in the presence of liquid water in them. The lack of water during hardening at elevated temperatures not only slows down the hydration process, but also reduces the strength and durability of the screed. When the water completely evaporates, the hardening process stops.
Now on sale there is an epoxy grout Fugalite Eco Invisibile , which contains glass microbeads and is therefore transparent. The property of transparency allows it to ensure continuity of tile and mosaic cladding. This grout can be used as an adhesive. It was very convenient to glue the mosaic with this compound and the seams were rubbed with the same compound. The cured mixture has excellent chemical and stain resistance.
Thus, this epoxy grout is a good example of a clear adhesive and grout for tiles and mosaics.
I used transparent silicone several times to glue decorative ceramic elements. There was an experience of covering a countertop made of chipboard with 10x10 cm tiles; I used transparent silicone as an adhesive, sealed the seams with epoxy grout, and made window trim using an aluminum profile for the edges of the countertops. The result was excellent. This choice of materials was dictated by the customer’s desire to eliminate dust and dirt during the work.
You can describe in more detail what we are talking about in the following phrase: AN ADHESIVE MIXTURE BASED ON WHITE CEMENT IS ESPECIALLY RECOMMENDED WHEN INSTALLING Stain-sensitive NATURAL STONE , which is written in the technical data sheet by manufacturers of tile adhesives.
Colleagues, there is a serious discussion going on here. The table with the classification is almost an abstract on a given topic, even the use has been improved, which, of course, is important for the consumer.
At one time I became acquainted with the European standard (EN 14411), in which the classification of ceramic tiles was carried out on the basis of water absorption and the method of molding (in total there were 8 groups, and in the place with subgroups 12, it seems like that). Thus, two basic principles were used, which Denis Enko - physical and chemical features, technological features of production.
Maybe you can dig in this direction? Next we will discuss the result.
This is actually a fairly common practice. We have enough alchemists :) But the result is unpredictable in any case and, of course, claims will not be accepted if something happens.
Timofey, let’s look at this topic in detail using the example of your bathroom and toilet. For advice and discussion, you must first clarify the information. Specifically interested in the following:
Olga Vladimirovna, in order to give you practical advice, it is necessary to clarify the following questions:
1. Will the repairs in the store affect only the floor or will you also cover the walls with tiles?
2. Stairs indoors or outdoors?
Or are we talking about a couple of steps at the entrance? 3. What material is currently used as a coating?
4. Is it possible to afford the use of tiles costing 1000-2000 rubles m2?
5. What is the traffic in the store 10, 50, 100 people per day?
6. Will there be wheeled carts moving around the store?
Starting this forum thread, I wanted to jointly find answers to the following problems:
Let me sum up the intermediate results. We managed to find information on all tasks. Thanks to this forum thread, the “Standards” section on the website has been updated. The European standard EN 14411 , which can be consulted on issues of classification, quality indicators and labeling of ceramic tiles and slabs. Also on the site appeared the interstate standard GOST 6787-2001 , which applies to glazed and unglazed floor tiles.
Texture, permeability, mineral content, history of stone formation - all these properties are of great importance both for the process of laying the stone and for its further operational purpose. If natural stone is exposed to water, it will easily penetrate through the pores of the stone. Porosity ensures the spread of water, which, of course, affects natural stone and leads to a number of problems: deformation , staining , and the formation of efflorescence . Since the question concerned staining, I will describe this problem in more detail.
The coloring agent penetrates into the natural stone along with water. As soon as the water evaporates, the coloring substance is concentrated and, as a result, leads to the coloring of natural stone. These substances are found in the stone itself , come from the installation adhesive , or are contained in the base . The use of adhesive mixtures based on white cement can significantly reduce or completely eliminate the influence of the last two points.
For those who want to carry out the work of preparing and applying adhesive milk on their own, I will give a few recommendations.
When performing thin-layer putty or adjacent screeds, before work it is necessary to treat the existing surface with adhesive cement “milk” prepared from IDROKOL X20, water and cement, taken in equal proportions (1:1:1). Apply adhesive laitance with a brush, roller or brush. Immediately apply the cement mortar mixed with IDROKOL X20, fresh on fresh, before the adhesive cement “milk” forms a surface film. After application, level and compact the mortar.
Preparation of adhesive milk
Mix in a clean container 1 part of clean water (t° from +10° to 20°C), 1 part of IDROKOL X20-m. Pour 1 weight part of cement into the resulting liquid while continuously mixing with an electric drill with a special mixing attachment until a homogeneous liquid solution without lumps is obtained.
Slavny Zhuk , in my practice I use a latex additive based on an aqueous dispersion of synthetic resins IDROKOL X20-m (manufactured by Litokol). This product is easy to use and also reliable in use. I use IDROKOL X20m to prepare adhesive cement laitance, which I use to treat the surface to continue pouring between old and fresh concrete. also use adhesive cement laitance to bond new cement-based screeds to old substrates .
Grachik , could you explain which latex additive you are working with (name, manufacturer).
Also interesting is the opinion of those who used latex additives based on an aqueous dispersion of synthetic resins. Provide specific examples of products.
I agree, we are talking about adhesive milk. It must be prepared in the ratio of components cement + latex additive + water - 1:1:1 . There is disagreement among workers about the proportion: by mass or by volume . On real objects, for convenience, we use the proportion by volume. In cases of shortage of latex additive or its absence, you can use cement laitance in a 1:1 ratio, although cement laitance dries faster than adhesive laitance. Therefore, we apply it to a small area.
Vovka, your neighbor is advanced!
As I understand it, he was talking about adhesive milk based on cement, latex additive and water. They need to be mixed in certain proportions. Next, treat the old DSP or concrete base with this milk, and then fill in the leveling screed. The main thing here is to carry out the work “wet on wet” until the milk dries. As a result, the screed will be “welded” to the base.
In the technical map
The technical data sheet for Coverflex waterproofing says that the consumption is 1.6 kg/m2 for each mm of thickness. Since the waterproofing is two-component (component A powder 20 kg, component B liquid 10 kg), the question arises how to calculate the consumption of Coverflex waterproofing ? The correct approach should be this: consumption is calculated based on the dry component . In our case, component A powder is 20 kg. With a layer thickness of 1 mm, a surface of 12.5 m2 can be treated.
Epoxy grout Fugalite Eco Invisibile
Fugalite Eco Invisibile epoxy grout is recommended for filling joints from 0 to 3 mm. This limitation is due to the fact that with such a joint width the effect without a discontinuous plane is pronounced for glass mosaics, ceramic parquet and stone cladding. If such an effect is not needed, then you can grout seams up to 20 mm wide.
Fugalite Eco epoxy grout has a neutro color, which is positioned as transparent. The technical data sheet states: “Thanks to the transparency of the micro glass beads, Fugalite Eco (neutro color) reflects and diffuses light, reflecting the colors of tiles and mosaics, creating the amazing impression of a continuous finish.” Adhesion between porcelain stoneware and concrete more than 1.5 MPa. This suggests that this grout can be used as an adhesive.
Thus, Fugalite Eco epoxy grout (neutro color) is a good example of a transparent adhesive and grout for tiles and mosaics.
I got acquainted with the European standard EN 14411 (thanks to Associate Professor ). Indeed, according to this standard, ceramic tiles and slabs are divided into 12 groups according to their manufacturing method and water absorption. However, the groups do not specify the scope of application of ceramic tiles and slabs.
The classification uses two manufacturing methods:
Based on water absorption (E), ceramic tiles and slabs are divided into the following three groups:
Requirements for dimensions and surface quality, as well as physical and chemical indicators must correspond to the data specified in the relevant annex of the standard for each group of ceramic tiles and slabs.
As a rule, it is recommended to carry out screed pouring work at temperatures from +5 to +35 degrees Celsius. Therefore, the question arises: how does temperature affect the rate of hardening of Portland cements. Here I deliberately write “Portland cement” because... the following reasoning is valid for both CPR and dry mixtures in bags.
So, temperature has a great influence on the hardening of cement. The hardening speed at low temperatures from 0 to +8 degrees Celsius is 2-3 times less than at ordinary temperatures from +15 to +25 degrees Celsius. At temperatures below 0 degrees Celsius, hardening processes almost completely stop. An increase in the temperature of hardening solutions is accompanied by an acceleration in the growth of strength. It becomes noticeable at a mixture temperature of 30 - 40 degrees Celsius when they harden during warm periods of the year. However, the intense effect of temperature on the hardening of cements manifests itself only in the presence of liquid water in them. The lack of water during hardening at elevated temperatures not only slows down the hydration process, but also reduces the strength and durability of the screed. When the water completely evaporates, the hardening process stops.
Draw your own conclusions.
Now on sale there is an epoxy grout Fugalite Eco Invisibile , which contains glass microbeads and is therefore transparent. The property of transparency allows it to ensure continuity of tile and mosaic cladding. This grout can be used as an adhesive. It was very convenient to glue the mosaic with this compound and the seams were rubbed with the same compound. The cured mixture has excellent chemical and stain resistance.
Thus, this epoxy grout is a good example of a clear adhesive and grout for tiles and mosaics.
I used transparent silicone several times to glue decorative ceramic elements. There was an experience of covering a countertop made of chipboard with 10x10 cm tiles; I used transparent silicone as an adhesive, sealed the seams with epoxy grout, and made window trim using an aluminum profile for the edges of the countertops. The result was excellent. This choice of materials was dictated by the customer’s desire to eliminate dust and dirt during the work.
You can describe in more detail what we are talking about in the following phrase: AN ADHESIVE MIXTURE BASED ON WHITE CEMENT IS ESPECIALLY RECOMMENDED WHEN INSTALLING Stain-sensitive NATURAL STONE , which is written in the technical data sheet by manufacturers of tile adhesives.
Colleagues, there is a serious discussion going on here. The table with the classification is almost an abstract on a given topic, even the use has been improved, which, of course, is important for the consumer.
At one time I became acquainted with the European standard (EN 14411), in which the classification of ceramic tiles was carried out on the basis of water absorption and the method of molding (in total there were 8 groups, and in the place with subgroups 12, it seems like that). Thus, two basic principles were used, which Denis Enko - physical and chemical features, technological features of production.
Maybe you can dig in this direction? Next we will discuss the result.
For clarity, I will give a possible classification of tiles.
This is actually a fairly common practice. We have enough alchemists :) But the result is unpredictable in any case and, of course, claims will not be accepted if something happens.
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